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 Post subject: rolls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:37 pm 
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:shock: i am a newby to this arena. but i am in amazment at your formulas & handle on your situation. i don't have any answers to your questions, i simply wanted to say wow. i am wondering why "600" lavender plants. what are their futures? i was just pondering a "few" lavender plants this winter & what growing conditions i was going to try. I am still not sure of the specie i am looking for in dfw region for cold hardiness. i had a couple of spanish that did ok for a few years, but the wet season did them in. since you must know lavender, to be doing those kinds of numbers - i'm wondering - (keep in mind this is north west of your region) - my bed is definately sloped (great for drainage) but i think i'm going to amend with pea gravel & lava sand & see how these guys like it. sorry to stick my nose in where i don't offer help. just curious.
bj


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:38 am 
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Wow, I'm fascinated too. 'Cap't Compost' will find this post & know the answers, never fear! I have the wild idea that I want to grow lavender on 4 of our not-yet-lived-on-acres and 600 plants sound like a good start! But how do you get 600 in the ground? I'd aggravate the ol' tennis elbow after 10!! There is a lot of info on the type of soil, etc, for lavender on this board if you do a 'lavender' search...
Patty

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:37 pm 
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I would leave out the potting soil from the recipe. You get a lot more benefit from compost than from any real soil.

I would only aerate for 24 hours at the most. As soon as you put the molasses in, the smell of a faint sweet rum should waft out of the drum. At the end of 24 hours it should smell more yeasty indicating that the molasses is used up.

A friend is designing a 55-gallon drum type of tea maker. He should have it tested by spring and, I'm sure, will post the full design on his website. He is using black soaker hose to aerate with. I believe he is going to use an air pump off of a car (wrecking yard stuff) to provide enough air. He will use a regular hose to the soaker hose coiled up on the base of the drum. I've seen his design for his 5-gallon bucket tea maker and I'm going to make an assumption about the design for the larger one. I'm going out on a limb to say that he will probably use a 5-gallon mesh bag to contain the compost. He will probably tie the bag shut and hang the bag in the tea with a small rope tied to a hole in the center of the top of the drum. He will also probably have a couple of aquarium air stones placed inside the compost bag. He will let the tea brew for 8 hours, then remove the bag from the barrel and let the air continue pumping for 16 more hours.

The biggest problem with using these large brewers is cleaning them. You need to scrub every surface to get the bacterial slime off of them before every batch. Otherwise the slime will ferment and grow alcohol which will kill your microbes. With my friend's design, he plans to discard and replace the black soaker hose after every few batches, because it cannot be scrubbed down inside the pores.

Answer to question 1: I believe corn meal will do what you are looking for. Definitely aerate and definitely don't go longer than 24 hours.

Answer to question 2: The shelf life is way too variable to give a simple answer. It mostly depends on what nutrients are left in the brew and the temperature. If you refridgerate it, it will last longer.

Answer to question 3: No. For the best information on compost tea, buy Dr Elaine Ingham's Compost Tea Brewing Manual from her website at http://www.soilfoodweb.com

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:21 pm 
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In 24 hours you will have used up all the good food for the microbes. After that they will start eating each other. You could recharge with your recipe but you don't need to if you just start making your tea 24 hours ahead of when you need it.

Hanging the stones in mid tank will keep all the deep corners from getting air. The bubbles you are getting are from fermentation in the muck. Muck on the bottom is a bad thing. Those are methane bubbles and you are creating alcohol. Alcohol, if you will recall back to the last cut you got on your hand, is a disinfectant and kills "germs." The microbes you are trying to grow in the tea are otherwise known as germs. You don't want alcohol. You need to get the air stones all the way to the bottom of the tank to ensure complete aeration and no muck formation.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:29 pm 
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Does anyone know if cornmeal also inhibits beneficial fungi? After all, you want fungi in your compost tea (the best ratio of fungus to bacteria depends on what you're growing).

Judith


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:42 am 
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Welcome my friend to the amazing world of creative aerobic bacterial/fungal tea brewing! If you haven't already, read my FAQ on the top of the composting forum of various suggestions on aerobic tea brewing.

In regards to aerobic microbial breeding, keep in mind that in regular composting you have basically several different range of microbial species environments.

Some microbes love wet environments better, some like drier conditions.

Some like warmer temps, some like cooler.

Some microbes are 100% aerobic getting their oxygen needs from the atmosphere.

Some microbes are 100% anaerobic getting their oxygen needs from moleules containing oxygen atoms.

Some microbes are actually hybrid aerobic/anaerobic based on what's going around them at the time.

In any form of aerobic tea brewing, no matter how "perfect" or "precise" you try to be, you'll never match the wide variety of aerobic microbial species in a rich homemade compost pile. The best you can do in your brewing container, is breed the best wet-loving microbes, and best mild-temp loving microbes from about 50-90 degrees F. Now some microbes can live any where in the world, under any climate or temperature in the world, but these mild temp ranges seem to be the best for aerobic bacterial and fungal growth.

Normally based on your type of homemade aeration system, going over 7-14 days is really silly. Usually based on your aeration system, 1-3 days (maybe at most 5 days) is more than enough brewing time. There is a maximum limit of how many aerobic, wet-loving, microbes you can possibly breed in your volume of tea, per climate, temperature, etc. After that "limit" is reached, regardless of how much constant aeration and various sugar/carbohydrate sources you feed the microbes, they will just start eating and killing each other in the tea brew! (LOL)

Keep in mind also that you can breed aerobic microbes in your tea, and also breed them again at application as a foliar or soil application. Since I brew all my aerobic teas in 20 gallon plastic tubs, hooked up to a 60 gallon aquarium pump with two 6' foots, every 1-3 days, on my acre no-till borderless raised beds, during decent temperature ranges, I use my diluted teas as both a foliar/soil drench using a simple cup/5-gallon bucket method or watering can method.

I never filter my brewed teas in any shape form or fashion! I want maximum "larger" microbial action (like fungi and protozoa) in my teas also thriving, other than just mere aerobic bacterial action. Check this out: No actinomycetes microbes tend to breed very well in any form of aerobic teas. They mostly breed in regular composting methods.

Using this personal method, I get maximum microbial action on both the foliar uptake and soil uptake, even if my aerobic teas are not "perfect" or "precise". Also by using my teas 2-3 times a week on heavy feeders, during the hot months, I never have to water the plants much at all.

Far as tea smell is concern, just like regular compost it should always smell pleasant, to indicate the you have achieved a safe, healthy balance of nutrients and microbes from the decomposed organic matter. With regular composting it's that pleasant forest dirt smell, mostly from actinomycetes. With aerobic teas it should have either a pleasant wine smell, yeast smell, or sometimes a fruity smell. The microbes of "smell" also vary in breeding rates and species based on your personal tea ingredients, and your climate and temperate environment.

During the hot months, my aerobic teas look very yellow or light brown, because I use a lot of protein/carbohydrates like unsalted cattle/horse feeds and dry molasses powders in the teas, plus my composted horse manure/sawdust (All wood products are fungal foods).

During cooler months like now, my teas remain blacker, and smell a little more like diluted vomit! (LOL) But I still use them as powerful diluted nitrogen rich soil drenches around my fallk/winter crops. Compost happens regardless! (LOL)

For "stinky" teas it's a good idea to put a little extra sugar sources or other easily digestible carbs in your diluted tea at application time, in order to get the existing aerobic microbes on your crops and soil to breed faster too.

After the aeration has ceased in your brewing container, you got approx. 12-24 to get those aerobic microbes out of your tea onto your soil and crops. Once they get to their native environment, they will live and breed on their own way past the 12-24 hour limit. NOTE: Keep in mind once again, we are only talking about a specific range of species in the tea brew, not the entire soil organism universe, which is not near as limited.

Never mix too many (if any) of any form of natural pesticidal products or pesticidal foods like garlic, onions, oranges, lemons, hot peppers, etc. in any form of biostimulating/fertilizing tea recipes. It kills off microbes, even small quantities of pesticidal foods kill something microbial. Leave pesticidal foods for your as-needed, specialized non-aerated pesticidal tea recipes.

My philosophy in sustainable farming is always rely on your regular composting, mulching, and cover cropping to really totally feed all the wide variety of soil organisms and to condition the soil physics. Only use aerobic teas as a suppliment or compliment to your composting methodolgies, not a total replacement. Aerobic compost teas will never get that good! Even Dr. Elaine Ingham will admit to that! (LOL)

The best you can do it use your own sustainable judgments and perferences and style, in order to build up and feed the amazing soil and foliar microherd, using your own various aerobic, carbohydrates/proteins enhanced, compost tea recipes.

Most of all just have fun!

Hope this helps my friend!
Happy Gardening!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:58 pm 
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Thanks Captin', Very informative.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:13 am 
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Always glad to help when I can!

Happy Holidays everybody!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:26 pm 
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Just wondering if anyone has had success with brewing compost tea in a 55 gal drum?

-John


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:53 am 
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Sounds like you have been a pretty busy guy. Thanks for the update.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:54 am 
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Personally I don't think you will ever totally "kill" anything or destroy your garden or lawn, no matter if your personal aerated compost tea brew is "perfect" or not! I think too many folks these days are trying too hard to get the perfect aerobic tea, when in nature, that's not really necessary.

Nature and the good Lord have been composting, mulching, and breeding benficial soil microbes in natural forests for a long time before we started messing with it. Plus nature and the good Lord are always forgiving over time! (LOL)

My philosophy is brew the best aerobic tea that you can, (as cheaply as you can), then forget it! No formal testing needed! Why waste money? Then just keep feeding the soil/foliar microherd, plenty of rich homemade compost, humates, sugars, carbohydrates, proteins, etc. with your choice of protein/mineral soil amendments.

But most of all, my friend, just have fun! That's the main thing!
Happy Gardening!

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