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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:59 am 
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Location: Frisco,TEXAS
Trying to dig a hole to plant a tree in my new yard, I get about 3 strokes with the shovel before it's so gummed up with clay it's more like a club than a spade. I try to scrape the gunk off the blade of the shovel with my fingers, but it's stuck hard.

Anyone have any techniques that make it easier to dig in clay?

Also, will this get any better once I get worms in the soil? Between the rose bed I prepped last week and this hole for the tree, I haven't seen any worms at all. Crickets and fire ants are the only life I've seen.

--Bill


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:15 pm 
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I know that frustrating feeling too! It doesn't help to let it dry out either because it gets hard as cement.

Your going to have to help the soil "lighten up". Some of the organic amendments can help with this right away *Could somebody list them please?* Also increasing the biological activity will fluff the soil and airate for you. Apply benficial nemetodes. Also somewhere in your yard create a small perfect environment for earthworms with compost, cormeal, molasses, and mulch. Don't let it dry out and don't till or turn it. Tilling breaks up the tunnels that earthworms use as living space. Go ahead and plant some veggies or flowers in this too. Eventually the earthworms will populate your entire yard. You can get earthworms in most organic gardening store either off the shelf or ordering them. I'd buy as little as possible and raise them in your worm nursery.

Being a native to north Texas I've always been jealous of sandier soils until we began preparing to ranch. Clay holds nutrients and plants in the soil better with less loss to trampling from 800lb animals. The trick is to be organic and that clay will be the best growing medium around.

Good Luck

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:26 pm 
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MotJuste wrote:
Trying to dig a hole to plant a tree in my new yard, I get about 3 strokes with the shovel before it's so gummed up with clay it's more like a club than a spade. I try to scrape the gunk off the blade of the shovel with my fingers, but it's stuck hard.

Anyone have any techniques that make it easier to dig in clay?

Also, will this get any better once I get worms in the soil? Between the rose bed I prepped last week and this hole for the tree, I haven't seen any worms at all. Crickets and fire ants are the only life I've seen.
--Bill


Organic amendments and aeration loosen/help loosen/mellow the clay in general, but I don't think that is the answer to your specific problem. If you're planting the tree the way the Dirt Doctor recommends, then you won't want to add amendments to the wide and rough planting hole for the tree. In that case, I believe you should allow the soil to dry some, but not "completely," before digging in it. Digging in clay of the wetness you're describing causes plenty of problems, but we believe that adding amendments to a tree planting hole causes problems for the tree also. Your condition probably resulted merely from the recent moisture, but it is possible that you have poor drainage at the tree planting site. If the soil at that site doesn't dry as you think it should, it might be a good idea to probe the area or do a percolation test. Those who don't know where the information is on how to plant trees, test drainage, etc., can search the Organic Information Center on the DirtDoctor.com link at the top of this page.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:57 pm 
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Enzyme honey, reread Bill's post. He was not asking how to plant a tree. From Bill's post I got the feeling he was frustrated working in his yard because the ground was so gummy. I believe I gave him good insights on how to better his soil

By the way your tree planting advice was right on and I hope Bill did those things.

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 Post subject: Soil Amendments
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:20 am 
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Agreed, Enzyme11, no digging in wet clay soil. Best way I know of to make sure it is at least as hard as concrete. :shock: I agree with Pam, our friend was asking how to get around this sticky clay situation.

Soil amendments usually recommended are: humate, molasses, compost, lava sand, green sand, and horticultural cornmeal.

From experience and a bad back, I can tell you starting off with a good dousing of molasses and compost OR Medina Soil Activator/Plus OR a really good combination of cornmeal, bio-innoculant/compost and molasses. That will put loads of good microbes in with plenty of food to start breaking down organic matter and encourage biology to help help the clay soil form in to tiny clumps. That's how you get a slick hard clump of clay soil to turn in to the "chocolate cake" consistency you hear about on Howard's show.

Invest $50 in molasses, liquid compost and Medina Soil Activator OR Earthworm or another acceptable soil bio-innoculant. You will see results quickly and you will be very happy with them. Apply each in the quantities and manner the labels describe.

Additional things to add are horticultural cornmeal and/or Agrispon to encourage the beneficial fungus growth, then at last lava sand and Texas green sand. Don't put the beneficial nematodes out until you have done the soil loosening. They will be unable to move around in the thick, compacted soil and you will waste your money. But just one application of these materials makes a tremendous difference and the nematodes can work on attacking the crickets and fire ants and getting rid of them, and leave most of the good guys alone!

Earthworms are almost as scarey as sharks in thier ability to smell food from far away. If you build that nice inviting compost pile THEY WILL COME. If you get impatient, go buy some but again, wait until you have loosened up your soil somewhat.

Good luck! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:51 am 
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Thanks for the advice. I will follow it.

One remaining question for Kathe and Enzyme, you both mentioned that digging in wet clay causes problems. I know it's hard on me, but am I actually harming the soil as well? I have another tree and a couple bushes to plant. Do I need to wait?

--Bill


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 Post subject: Glad to Help
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:48 am 
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Location: Dallas,TX
Yes, when you dig in the wet clay you are harming the soil. You are compacting it, you are drowning roots and suffocating loads of microbes, and if you leave a smooth surface anywhere in your hole you are making a wall in the ground that is like cement. It will prevent normal root growth and potentially cause the plants weakness and a much shorter life span. Best to wait until the soil is dry enough to fall apart a bit, at least in clods.

However, the good news is that while the soil is too wet to dig it's a good time to go ahead and put out the dry amendments. The extra moisture will help disperse the good stuff faster, and when the soil does dry out it should be much easier to dig! :D

Kateh


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:57 am 
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Location: Allen, Texas
I am having the same problem trying to prepare a veggie garden. I originally prepared the area last summer for a fall garden. I added compost, molasses, lava sand and had a reasonably acceptable crop of corn, carrots, tomatoes.

I have added the same plus Texas green sand but it is so gummy after the snow, it is very difficult to till in. I finally was able to till but it is still to wet to plant and more rain is due tomorrow. It is getting late for planting cool weather veggies. Any suggestions?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:28 am 
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Don't till anymore. Just put amendments on top, they will still work just as well or even better. When we till we break the earthworm tunnels that allow air, water, nutrients and microbes into the soil.

Last Summer all I did to prepare a bed for pumpkins was to dump lots of partially composted chicken manure into a mounded row. I had hordes of pumpkins. (Tried more conventional way year before and got one pumpkin.)

I think all those things you mentioned mounded for a raised bed should do the trick nicely. Your plantings will have a soft place to root into and have the nutrients right when you and the plants want them.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:37 pm 
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Thanks. I'll try that. It will be a lot easier than tilling anyway :) [/quote]


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:25 pm 
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When an artist buys clay, she or he has to prepare it for working into a bowl or pot. They do that by pounding it, rolling it, folding it, pushing it, and anything else they can do to get the air bubbles out of it. When you dig wet clay you are doing the same thing. Soil microbes need air to survive and digging it will push all the air out.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:54 am 
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Dave,
I like how you explained it. Right to the point and so easy to understand. I never thought of it that way.
Now we understand why not to till, but add to the top.
Thanks for the explanation.

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Converting one person at a time to Organics, the only way to go!! [ ME ]


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:31 pm 
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Location: parker county, texas
When you are working with clay soil, there is a perfect time for digging it. Right after it rains is not the time. Let it try out for at least a couple of days. It reaches a nice middle point where it is workable before it turns to concrete. I also find that using a digging fork in addition to my favorite shovel helps. The soil is workable when it is still barely moist, not wet. I have been gardening in dark heavy North Texas clay for 25 years or longer. It just takes some time to get a feel for it.


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 Post subject: No Till Gardening
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:05 pm 
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For reading material on no-till gardening, mulching, and composting the garden check out the most recent issue of Mother Earth News. It has a great article on Ruth Stout and her no-work gardening method. Howard talks about Ruth from time to time but this is the first time I've seen any reference to her or her methods in a major magazine. It's in the February/March issue with Paul & Nell Newman on the cover on page 23. Her method isn't for everyone but it does work and it isn't hard.

The article on the Newmans ain't half bad either! It tells how Nell got her dad to eat organic food and taste how much better it is, and then to launch the organic arm of Newman's Own. If you're not yet eating most or all organic, Read it!

Kathe :D :D


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 Post subject: clay soils
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:33 am 
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Location: Waco
Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I have been gardening for many years. I used to dig up the soil for flower and vegetable beds, but not anymore! If you have any plans to make beds you can use this method. Cover the area you want to make into a bed with wet newspaper (check with the paper to make sure they are using dyes that are OK). You will need six to eight layers. Then pile on compost, leaves, and other organic matter. Should be several inches thick. Then cover with finished compost or mulch. This method works so well I have retired my shovel. It won't work with the tree planting though. I agree with Howard's method of planting trees. They must be planted in native soil in a rough hole.


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